Thank you for your response, John.
I need some further clarification because a test I ran doesn’t match up with what your response in a couple ways.
First, let me see I understand what you’re saying: According to how I read your response if I set the “Lead Pct” to 25%, a referral partner refers a lead and that lead makes a purchase, the referral partner earns a commission of 25% for that sale as payment for the referring the lead. (And am I right in saying that this only happens once? That is, if the same lead makes another purchase another 25% commission wouldn’t be paid?) Alternatively, if I set the “Sale Pct” to 25% and a referral partner refers a lead that goes on to place an order, that referral partner will earn at 25% commission on that sale (and all future sales that lead makes). Does all that sound right to you so far? Is that an accurate depiction of your explanation?
You do say “that referrer can either get a commission (amount or percent) for referring them and/or the actual sale”.
The “and” in “and/or” has me hung up because I ran a test in which I had the terms set to 25% for BOTH “Lead Pct” and “Sale Pct”. I placed an order through an online order form. A 25% commission was registered. I then placed a manual order (through admin panel mocking a phone order), and a 25% commission was registered again. In neither case did BOTH a 25% commission get registered for payment for the lead and payment for the sale. What am I missing?
Further, while you say, “online and offline have nothing to do with it”, my experience with the referral partner program shows otherwise, even if this is an indirect effect (i.e. not a feature, per se) of how the system works. By that I mean, we had a referral partner program that paid 8% for “Sale Pct” for a specific product. Commissions ONLY automatically registered for referral partner when orders were placed through an online order form and NOT when an order was placed by phone. And as my test above showed, placing a manual order through the admin panel DID register a commission when I had the terms set to 25% for both “Sale Pct” and “Lead Pct”. So it seems safe to say that the reason the commission registered for the manual admin panel order (phone order) was due to the “Lead Pct” term being set.
Finally, I got confirmation on how this works from an Infusionsoft rep via live chat. Originally I though “Lead Amt” would simply pay a set amount per lead a referral partner referred, regardless of whether the lead purchased anything. That is, if I wanted to just pay a referral partner $3 for every lead they refer (no sale required) I would just set “Lead Amt” to $3. Clearly that’s not how it works, but that’s some context for how this conversation begins.
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:04:02 AM): Hi, thank you for contacting Keap Support. My name is Rony June. I hope you’re doing well today.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:04:06 AM): Hello, Rony June.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:04:20 AM): I’ve set up a referral partner program called Virtual Masterclass Leads
Me (10/28/2019, 9:04:38 AM): and I’m trying to test it to make sure it’s working in the way I expect it to
Me (10/28/2019, 9:04:59 AM): I’ve set the program terms to pay a $3 commission per lead
Me (10/28/2019, 9:05:30 AM): Can you confirm, that means that if a referral partner refers someone to subscribe through one of my forms using one of their referral partner links they earn $3, correct?
Me (10/28/2019, 9:05:40 AM): That’s why I intend the terms to be
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:06:34 AM): Hello Aaron. I’ll be happy to help you with your referral partner program. I would need to access your app to further assist you. May I have your permission?
Me (10/28/2019, 9:06:39 AM): Yes
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:06:54 AM): Thank you. One moment please.
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:07:24 AM): Was this set under Commission programs?
Me (10/28/2019, 9:07:30 AM): Yes
Me (10/28/2019, 9:07:49 AM): The name of the Commission Program in question is “Virtual Masterclass Leads”
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:08:11 AM): Thank you. Checking it now.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:10:01 AM): First, I just need clarity on what those commission terms mean. I take them to mean that if a referral partner refers a lead (i.e. uses their affiliate link to send someone to a page on my site and that referred person subscribers) they earn $3. That’s it. I want to make sure it doesn’t mean something else; for example, that they only earn that $3 if the person goes on to purchase something.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:10:15 AM): subscribes*
Me (10/28/2019, 9:11:36 AM): The reason I ask is because I justed test the program with a dummy referral partner account and a commission wasn’t registered after I followed the dummy referral partner accounts’ link and subscribed.
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:14:19 AM): Thank you for staying connected, Aaron. Upon checking the commission program, I can see that it is properly setup. Yes, the commission will be given to your referral partner if a lead purchased using the tracking link. I see that no product or subscription was added so it means the commission will be applied to all products or subscription. Also, the commission will be applied once the lead placed the order even if they had not pad yet.
If you want the commission to apply to a specific product or subscription, you need to enter the name of the product on
Product Commissions. Also, if you want the commission to apply once the product has been paid, you can choose “Credit on Customer Payment” on Payout Type.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:14:44 AM): That’s not what I’m attempting to do with the terms
Me (10/28/2019, 9:15:05 AM): I want to pay a referral partner when they refer someone, whether the person they refer purchases anything
Me (10/28/2019, 9:15:16 AM): is that not what “pay $3 per lead” means in the program terms?
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:16:32 AM): I see. Do you mean that the referral partner should receive $3 once a lead clicks on the tracking link?
Me (10/28/2019, 9:17:07 AM): No. Once a referral partner refers a new lead (i.e. the person they send to our site subscribes through an Infusionsoft form)
Me (10/28/2019, 9:17:47 AM): What is the distinction in commission program terms between “Lead Amt” and “Sale Amt”?
Me (10/28/2019, 9:18:23 AM): I’d take “Sale Amt” to mean that we pay the referral partner a commission once a sale takes place and “Lead Amt” to mean that we pay a commission once a lead is referred.
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:20:25 AM): I see. I am currently checking this. May I ask the sample referral partner that you used?
Me (10/28/2019, 9:20:51 AM): Yes. The sample referral partner used is called Aaronvm Foxvm
Me (10/28/2019, 9:21:02 AM): This is the link I used for the test
Me (10/28/2019, 9:21:02 AM): https://nm356.isrefer.com/go/virtualmasterclass/Aaronvm/
Me (10/28/2019, 9:21:16 AM): The test subscriber’s name is Aaronvmtest Foxvmtest
Me (10/28/2019, 9:21:28 AM): That contact is “owned” by Aaronvm Foxvm
Me (10/28/2019, 9:22:09 AM): and in Aaronvm Foxvm’s referral partner account I see that the click was registered under “Link Tracking Stats” but it shows “0” Subscriptions and $40 in commissions generated
Me (10/28/2019, 9:25:35 AM): Your process document on how to set up a Commission Program doesn’t say anything about the difference between “Lead Amt” and “Sale Amt”. What’s the difference?
Me (10/28/2019, 9:25:36 AM): https://help.infusionsoft.com/help/create-a-commission-program
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:31:02 AM): Upon checking here, for the sale amount, the commission will depend on the amount of sale. While for the lead amount, the commission will depend on the total sales of the leads on the order form.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:31:59 AM): Can you give me an example? I’m not sure I quite follow.
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:38:05 AM): Sure. For example, If I refer you to visit specific blog and signup the page it is lead referral. Same goes with sales If I request you to purchase any product through my link it will be sales lead.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:39:00 AM): Sorry, that doesn’t help me understand what you wrote previously.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:40:34 AM): Are you still there?
Me (10/28/2019, 9:40:50 AM): I’m wondering if you can give me a real world example
Me (10/28/2019, 9:41:24 AM): Of the difference between me setting the terms to be, say, 25% for “Lead Amt” versus setting the terms to be 25% for “Sale Amt”.
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:47:12 AM): Sorry for that. Alright. On this example, say a lead purchases a product with an amount of $100 from the tracking link of referral partner. The referral partner will then receive 25% commission which is $25.
For the lead amount, this is the total sales purchased by the leads of your referral partner. For example, I am a referral partner. I have three leads. Each of them purchased $100 each. So the total I have from my leads is $300. The commission I will get is then $75.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:49:46 AM): I still don’t follow. In the first example the referral partner earns $25 for a referral sale. Presumably this example is if I set the terms to be 25% for “Sale Amt”. In the second example it’s the SAME thing, with the only variable being that the referral partner referred not 1 person, but 3. So how is that any different from the first example? In both cases each referred sales registers a commission of $25.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:53:17 AM): Are you still there?
Me (10/28/2019, 9:55:03 AM): Hello?
Rony June (10/28/2019, 9:55:46 AM): Hi Yes, sorry for that. I am making a test on my end so that I can send you with screenshot. Pl\ease bear with me.
Me (10/28/2019, 9:55:54 AM): Ok. Thanks.
Rony June (10/28/2019, 10:10:51 AM): Thank you for staying connected, Aaron. Here is a sample using my own app.
On the example, I used the same referral partner. Both on lead referral and sale referral.
If you set your referral partner under lead, the commission will be based on the leads that he gets.
If you set the partner to Sale, the commission will be based on the sale on your products regardless which lead it come from.
On this commission program,
the item is book. For example, a customer purchased the item, the referral partner will receive 25%. This happens when the customer directly purchases on order form or shopping cart by using the referral partner’s tracking link. Then for the lead, if your referral partners drive leads to a direct sales team, you may want Infusionsoft to also calculate a commission for the partner who referred the lead.
Me (10/28/2019, 10:11:28 AM): reading…
Rony June (10/28/2019, 10:15:04 AM): Payout Type (Lead/Sale)
Infusionsoft calculates referral commissions a sale takes place. If your referral partners drive leads to a direct sales team, you may want Infusionsoft to also calculate a commission for the partner who referred the lead.
Me (10/28/2019, 10:15:10 AM): So what I am understanding here is that the distinction between “Sale Amt” and “Lead Amt” is that both pay commissions at the level you set when an order is placed, but “Sale Amt” only pays commissions for orders placed on an order for or shopping cart whereas “Lead Amt” pays commissions for orders placed by phone. Is that accurate? And would an online order form or shopping cart order ALSO generate a commission if the terms are only set for “Lead Amt”? That is, does “Lead Amt” ONLY generate a commission for offline orders, or for both online and offline?
Rony June (10/28/2019, 10:16:27 AM): That is correct, Lead is more on manual meaning offline transaction like what you said, through phone conversation.
Me (10/28/2019, 10:17:07 AM): But if only use “Lead Amt” and NOT “Sale Amt” and an online order form order is placed a commission would NOT be generated, correct?
Rony June (10/28/2019, 10:18:22 AM): Yes, that’s correct. If that is the case, if “Sale Amt” is not configured, you will also need to manually create the commission and add the referral partner on the order information.
Me (10/28/2019, 10:21:41 AM): Got it. Ok, so if I want all types of orders to generate commissions, both online and offline, I need to set terms for BOTH “Lead Amt” and “Sale Amt” and if I do and if a referral partner refers a sale (placed either offline or online) only one of the terms will register. That is, if I set both Lead Amt and Sale Amt to 25% like you did in your screenshot example, and a referred customers orders online they referral partner will earn 25%, correct? Likewise, if a referred customer orders by phone the referral partner would earn 25%, yes? And the commission aren’t compounded in any way (i.e. adding up to 50% in any cases); it’s only ever 25% paid in either case, correct?
Rony June (10/28/2019, 10:24:04 AM): That’s all correct!
Rony June (10/28/2019, 10:24:06 AM):
Me (10/28/2019, 10:24:18 AM): Awesome! I think I got it now. Thank you for your assistance.
Rony June (10/28/2019, 10:25:16 AM): I’m glad that I was able to assist you with referral partner. Hope that you grow your business with Keap.
Me (10/28/2019, 10:25:19 AM): Have a great day.
Me (10/28/2019, 10:25:21 AM): Cheers
Me (10/28/2019, 10:25:23 AM): Goodbye
Rony June (10/28/2019, 10:25:28 AM): Thank you. Have a great day too.
You can see that the Infusionsoft rep confirms that there is an online and offline distinction. “Sale Pct” only “works” if the referred contact places an order through an online form, whereas “Lead Pct”, according to the rep, works for phone orders. (But does it also work for online order form orders? I will test that.)
Reading back through all this, I’m gathering that:
“Sale Pct” only automatically pays commissions for sales referred through an online order form
“Lead Pct” is automatically triggered when a referral partner refers a lead and that lead goes on to purchase something in ANY way (online or offline)
Are those two statements accurate?
Either way, I’m still hung up on:
a) why my online order form test order didn’t trigger a 50% (25% for Lead Pct and 25% for Sale Pct) commission (I was a lead in the system before placing the online order form order)
b) and need to understand whether “Lead Pct” pays for only the first order or all future orders
Apologies for the long-winded reply, and thank you in advance for any clarity you can provide.